{The List} - Technology

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sandman
Why, what's so great about them? Removing eras allows for greater customisation for your civ, for example, shooting towards navigation for an island civ, or ignoring warfare techs for a peaceful civ. Makes each civ more unique.

Eras keep the game pretty coherent. I always hated when I had "Electricity" and "Genetics" both as choices on the C2 research screen

(btw, the C3 tech tree has an error in it - Integrated Defense requires among other things Satellites and Precision Weaponry, while Precision Weaponry already requires Satellites )

[Fosse]

Originally posted by skywalker


Eras keep the game pretty coherent. I always hated when I had "Electricity" and "Genetics" both as choices on the C2 research screen

This just means reworking the prerequisites, not forcing a more linear play through several eras.

I agree, some options in Civ 2 could get out of hand in being unbalanced. That's one of the things that my above proposal tries to address, but that can still be done in a carefully planned traditional tech tree with no eras.

Eras automatically cut way back on the possiblity for a unique experience in every game. Eras were a step that should not be repeated.

[TimeTraveler]

If I could change Civ3 in one way, it would be to either get rid of technology eras, or at least make them much more flexible.

First of all, IMHO, the current system seems fairly unrealistic. Each technology at the end of one era shouldn't necessarily have to lead to all or none of the techs in the next era. For example, Flight should be able to lead to Rocketry without Computers also having to require it. At the same time, Construction should be able to be a prerequisite for Engineering without also being required for Monotheism. In fact, I don't think Democracy should require Construction either.

Second of all, it does indeed make the tech tree too narrow, with the only options to loosen it be to make a lot of techs into dead ends, or simply not lead to or require much else in its own era, which would further complicate the problem of the tech tree being too unrealistic.

So please... let's get the Civ4 chart back to something similar to the other Civ and Civ-like games.

[Fosse]

Originally posted by TimeTraveler
Each technology at the end of one era shouldn't necessarily have to lead to all or none of the techs in the next era.

Great point, TimeTraveler. Aside from the modding problems, this is one of the major flaws of the "era" system.

[Adagio]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this idea exists already... anyway, here it is:

There shouldn't just be one tech tree, but a tech-tree which divides with time:

There's one Ancient Age... all Civs starts here. But during the research of this one, you can go two ways: Middle Ages 1 or Middle Ages 2
If you during your research in Ancient Age first tries to get economic techs, you'll go to Middle Ages 1, while if you get the war researches first, you go to Middle Ages 2.
In Middle Ages 1 you get the economic techs first (e.g. you get the bank before those who gets to Middle Ages 2, but you'll be slower on getting to the war techs)
From that age you can go to Industrial Age 1, 2 & 3. IA1 is only avaliable to those who got to MA1, while IA3 is only avaliable to those who got to MA2... IA3 is in the middle of the road, and avaliable for both
The first one always gives better economic research, the last one always gives a better war research... those in the middle (There's two "middle roads" for the Modern age) doesn't turn to a specific way




Maybe my explenation I made a couple of years ago (Before PTW) makes more sense:

Just had an idea about making the "age" system different (attached picture). Here I have tried to make one ancient age (The one everybody has), two medival ages, three industrial ages and four modern times. E.g. if you "invent" medieval times 1, you can't "invent" modern age three and four!

Each different age number has something special, e.g. some wonders other ages might not have, or better planes, stronger tanks, etc.

To get to a certain age number, you need to have invented certain techs before other techs, e.g. if you invent money making techs as first priority, then your next age will contain more money making techs!

Hope you get my idea. It was just a thought on how to make the inventing area a little more different, since it's now just there, not much difference between the civs...

This would defently give a more varied tech-tree

[Lorizael]

I'd like to see a difference between theories and technologies, and between sociological (philosophy, religion, politics, economics, etc...) and scientific (physics, biology, chemistry, etc...) research. Don't know specifically how I would want to express these differences, though.

[POTUS]

Seems like a good idea, but if a country wants to build an army, they don't first get knights, then muskets, then machine guns. They just get machine guns.

[DarkCloud]

This would defently give a more varied tech-tree

It might give a more varied tech tree- but culture groupings would make more sense than arbitrary choices... for example: nowadays the weapons in the US and China are pretty much the same- Tanks, Nukes, Missiles... civ can't really detail the exact types of tanks because civ is a strategy game, not a wargame... and even in elder days the weapons were quite alike, they just differed slightly in implementation.

Example: a warrior in china would be just as powerful as a warrior in india and a warrior in europe.

BUT a warrior in europe wouldn't have access to elephants... so the Indians/Carthaginians could use war elephants and have men with spears when the Europeans could only use Pikemen. (same basic weapon concept but different implementations)

[Kuciwalker]

That's what resources and/or UU's are for

[Adagio]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
It might give a more varied tech tree- but culture groupings would make more sense than arbitrary choices... for example: nowadays the weapons in the US and China are pretty much the same- Tanks, Nukes, Missiles... civ can't really detail the exact types of tanks because civ is a strategy game, not a wargame... and even in elder days the weapons were quite alike, they just differed slightly in implementation.

Example: a warrior in china would be just as powerful as a warrior in india and a warrior in europe.

BUT a warrior in europe wouldn't have access to elephants... so the Indians/Carthaginians could use war elephants and have men with spears when the Europeans could only use Pikemen. (same basic weapon concept but different implementations)

Why did you quote me?

We're talking about two different things..!

/me starts readin what he wrote

Ahhh... now I see, I used a wrong word... I didn't mean 'better' weapons, etc. I ment 'faster' (as in faster research).
Eg. when taking the economic 'road' you get the bank earlier than new 'wartoys'... or at least the tech-tree is better setup for getting the bank faster...

[Az]

Also posted in my thread.

Let technologies influence government and society in different ways than just government techs allowing governments, and techs cancelling the effects of wonders. corruption, war weariness.... all of those.

[Elias]

Id like to see sub groups of each tech and I think they could add in another era to two I like how they did the eras in rise of nations with what was it? 9 eras instead of 4 the. In the current civ its hard to say where the agricutral eveloution fits. i like how they seprated ww1 from ww2 this is hard to see in civ3. Id like to see tech effect units more directly.
Example to all of these Your in the info age you reaserch precison guided wepons now you research the integreation of it into bombers/Fighters after you finish all fighters/Bombers recive a + bonus to bombardment. maby a graphic change to?
This way civs who dont want it only have to research the bare minimum of techs and units can very in strength for each civ.
If anyone else has herd about the unit workshop idea this would work good with that too.

[DarkCloud]

That's what resources and/or UU's are for

Which is why I don't see much point in tech-tree variation...

ADG-

Ahhh... now I see, I used a wrong word... I didn't mean 'better' weapons, etc. I ment 'faster' (as in faster research).
Eg. when taking the economic 'road' you get the bank earlier than new 'wartoys'... or at least the tech-tree is better setup for getting the bank faster...

ah, now I understand. that makes more sense!

[Jaguar]

Bump.

Once we agree on some things then I'll put them up in the list.


I think that the first thing we can agree on is that there should be a difference between techs like Democracy and techs like Steel. They should be treated slightly differently. You can't "steal" the concept of Communism with a spy. It's just silly.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
Bump.

Once we agree on some things then I'll put them up in the list.


I think that the first thing we can agree on is that there should be a difference between techs like Democracy and techs like Steel. They should be treated slightly differently. You can't "steal" the concept of Communism with a spy. It's just silly.

Yes I agree that stealing Communism is silly.

Especially as when we look into the history of this planet, and we find the Communist nations treated communism as a great religion that had to be shared with as many nations as possible as fast as possible, sending out people and training to many nations that would have them etc... and unto all people groups and races...

I feel that some of these "Tech's" should be removed from the tech tree, as they are more cultural developments than scientific research.